Σε μια μεγαλοπρεπή τελετή, παρουσία της ηγεσίας του τουρκικού στόλου και βιομηχανίας, ο Ταγίπ Ερντογάν χαιρέτισε την καθέλκυση του πρώτου πλοίου του προγράμματος ναυπήγησης έξι υποβρυχίων γερμανικής προέλευσης “Τύπου 214”. Η τελετή έλαβε χώρα στα ναυπηγεία Gölcük ενώ συνοδεύτηκε από την τελετουργική κοπή των πρώτων ελασμάτων για το πέμπτο υποβρύχιο.
Το υποβρύχιο θα ονομαστεί “Pirireis” και θα είναι το πρώτο του τύπου που θα ονομαστεί S-214TN λόγω της ενσωμάτωσης πολλών τουρκικών υποσυστημάτων στο πλοίο, περιλαμβανομένου και ενός τουρκικής ανάπτυξης Συστήματος Διανομής Πληροφοριών από την Havelsan που αποκαλείται από τον τουρκικό Τύπο ως “η καρδιά του υποβρυχίου”. Παράλληλα, στην ανάπτυξη των υποσυστημάτων των τουρκικών S-214 συμμετέχουν πολλές εταιρίες, ιδιωτικές και δημόσιες, όπως οι ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, MilSOFT, Defense Technologies Engineering and Trade Inc. (STM), Koç Information and Defense, το Συμβούλιο Επιστημονικής και Τεχνολογικής Έρευνας της Τουρκίας (TÜBİTAK) και η AYESAŞ, καθώς και πολλοί τοπικοί υπεργολάβοι όπως οι Gürdesan, Sirena Marine, Arıtaş, İ-Marine κλπ.
Ωστόσο, αντίθετα με τις δηλώσεις του ελληνικού και ξένου Τύπου και τις διακηρύξεις των Τούρκων πολιτικών, τα τουρκικά υποβρύχια απέχουν πολύ ακόμα από το να γίνουν επιχειρησιακά. Το “Pirireis” μπορεί να έπεσε στη θάλασσα του Αιγαίου αλλά τα ηλεκτρονικά συστήματα που θα το κάνουν πολεμικό πλοίο δεν έχουν ακόμα ολοκληρωθεί. Το τουρκικό Υφυπουργείο Αμυντικής Βιομηχανίας που έχει την ευθύνη συντονισμού των τουρκικών εταιριών τοποθετεί την παράδοση του πρώτου υποβρυχίου στη δύναμη του στόλου στο 2022, αν όλα πάνε καλά και δεν υπάρχουν καθυστερήσεις. Από εκεί και ύστερα, το τουρκικό ναυτικό φιλοδοξεί να παραλαμβάνει ένα νέο υποβρύχιο κάθε χρόνο μεταξύ 2022 και 2027. Τα ονόματα των υπολοίπων S-214TN θα είναι τα “Hizirreis”, “Muratreis”, “Aydınreis” που βρίσκονται σε πρώιμο στάδιο ναυπήγησης και το “Seydialireis” που η κοπή των μετάλλων του μόλις άρχισε.
Τα υποβρύχια “Τύπου 214” είναι γερμανικής σχεδίασης και έχουν το χαρακτηριστικό πως η κίνησή τους είναι ανεξάρτητη του αέρα, προσδίδοντας νέες δυνατότητες και επιτρέποντας μακρές περιόδους κατάδυσης, πολύ πέραν των υπολοίπων συμβατικών υποβρυχίων. Το τουρκικό πρόγραμμα είναι ιδιαίτερα φιλόδοξο αφού οι τουρκικές αρχές προσπαθούν να ενσωματώσουν όσο το δυνατόν περισσότερη εγχώριας ανάπτυξης τεχνολογία στα πλοία, σαν πρελούδιο απόκτηση εμπειρίας για να ναυπηγήσουν την επόμενη γενιά υποβρυχίων εξολοκλήρου τουρκικής ανάπτυξης. Το γεγονός έχει ήδη καθυστερήσει πολύ το πρόγραμμα ναυπήγησης. Υπενθυμίζουμε πως η Τουρκία επέλεξε τον “Τύπο 214” ήδη από το 2009 και ξεκίνησε εργασίες με ορίζοντα παράδοσης του πρώτου πλοίου το 2014. Δέκα χρόνια μετά, οι τουρκικές βιομηχανίες πέτυχαν απλά την καθέλκυση του ανθεκτικού κύτους ενώ οι θαλάσσιες δοκιμές που θα αρχίσουν τα επόμενα χρόνια απομένει να δείξουν εάν κι εφόσον τα τουρκικά υποβρύχια θα ταλανίζονται από θέματα ευστάθειας, όπως τα αντίστοιχα ελληνικά και τί βαθμό ολοκλήρωσης επιτυγχάνουν τα τουρκικά ηλεκτρονικά συστήματα ΟΤΑΝ κι ΕΦΟΣΟΝ παραδοθούν εγκαίρως.
Τα τουρκικά ηλεκτρονικά συστήματα θα παραδοθούν εγκαίρως, θα λειτουργήσουν, θα διασυνδεθούν
και θα είναι ανώτερα των Ελληνικών, όπως συνέβη και με το πολλαπλής πολυπλοκότητας , σε σχέση με τα υποβρύχια, Altay.
Sweet dreams 😉
Συμφωνούμε απόλυτα.
Γλυκά όνειρα για εμάς εφιάλτες για εσάς.
ΥΓ
Για θύμησέ μου πόσα Αltay έχετε παραλάβει;
It’s so funny only you are mentioning delayed Altay tank.. anyways let me share a link for you, it’s in turkish unfortunately..the owner of BMC company Ethem Sancak..he says in 24 months Altay will be used in turkish army..
https://youtu.be/tqFLueLKczs
But 24 months might look too long time for you since you don’t have ability to think of long term projects…ask your big brothers, they were laughing at our UAV projects 15 years ago, and they were making fun if us just like you..I really want to see their faces when akinci is flying above 🙂
https://youtu.be/Vm3Luyw3kGA
The most funny to date is its cost. Up to date the companies have consumed:
-approximately 0.7 billion on the R&D
-they are to produce 250 items with a cost of 10 million euros each
-the cost of 10 million each is subject to the Turkish state paying enormous subsidies on all types of costs (so that the visible cost does not go sky-high and they ridicule the whole process). So they gave for free huge plots of land, they gave a factory, they gave tax incentives and payroll subsidies, they even brought people from Turkey and Qatar to pour additional money.
So what they will get is 250 replicas of the Korean tank, but three times the price that a non prime tank costs, as for 250 items it will be paying something like 16 million per each (while Armata costs around 7-8 million, M1A2, Leopard etc cost about 7-10 million each. This is something between funny and totally laughable for a not Turk, for a Turk that has paid triple price and feels proud about this, I am not sure.
and a link:
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2019/12/19/how-a-small-investment-is-set-to-earn-a-turkish-businessman-44b-from-tank-sales/
My best wishes for producing more and more military items like airplanes, ships and whatever else.
I wonder why you are amused or worried about the delays?
Actually we prefer to develope our OWN technologies, no matter if it takes 3, 5 or 10 years longer.
In 2002 there were only 56 companies working in the defence sector. Today its about 1450!
Currently 700 projects, worth 60 billion usd are in progress.
While Greece has just 530 million Euro to spend for weapons, Aselsan alone had a profit of 300 million Euros in 9month/2019.
And for your beloved Altay Tank, the first start to be delivered in May 2020. 😉
And a bonus from me: firat rocket launch in August 2020.
Trials and tests successfull so far
https://youtu.be/Bk27E6mc2a8
HELL
We are amused because where you are, we have been there decades ago. You don’t have and develop your own technology, you simply assemble or hire )or “hire”) the patents of others.
However as their cost is extremely inflated (I assume for obvious reasons), they have to sell it some way to the locals that pay for all of these, so they made a glossy package to the whole thing by saying how a) this gives work to locals and b) how much technology you have gathered (but you cannot sell a single ATAK out of Turkey).
Similarly Altay is a bad copy of the Korean Panther, and a number of other systems are copy or clopy of other countries systems (missiles, radars etc).
So yes it is amusing that you pay triple for being proud about technology that you acquire, but as we see that you do not acquire we simply laugh about the prices and how civilians pay and feel happy about it.
Just stop fooling yourself..you know exactly that we are doing great job and we are developing our war industry very well and fast..very soon we will have our own engines for Ataks and Altay tanks..70% of our army is homemade..just you are talking out of huge jealously or simply you are fooling yourself to sleep well in nights as I mentioned above 🙂 Sweet dreams to you too 🙂
Ps: maybe you should start considering why your government is in silence mode for the last events around you..because they know Turkey is not the same..things are changed my friend..things are changed 😉
you cant understand about what he is talking about. He says that Altay is obvious an overpriced copy,therefore a failed project that is get fed with funds to survive escalating the final product price. Who will buy Altay by the time with half money anybody can buy a battle tested tank by a country with long tradition in tank manufacturing? Abrams,T90,Armata,Merkava even Black panther are at least 50% cheaper.
A heavy defence industry cant survive without serious exports. I cant see any1 except Qatar and Pakistan buying Altay for 13.7 million dollars per piece.
Turkish systems are not competitive for global market players because their price/quality ratio is unbalanced.
No prize without a price. Or efforts 😉
The Turkish defense industry is not at this level by coincidence.
Meanwhile the “Aerospace&Defence” Exports are currently at 2,6 billion usd, year-to-date. Plus 35% YoY.
THE MYTHS OF TURKISH DEFENCE INDUSTRY:
1) Its business is growing rapidly. Yes but not because everyone wants to buy from Turkey, but because Turkey is enormously spending on military and the sellers are required to give also wok to locals. So if Turkey spends 5 billions, out of which 1,5 through offsets go to locals, and the next year the country spends 10 billions and 30% again through offsets go to locals, this is not a success of locals, but that the country is giving enormous amounts of money not for making its people prosper, but for more lame reasons
2) They achieve exports. The largest part of the numbers are not real export, is simply accounted like that, i.e. Turkey buys a missile from Raython , this gives some work to Roketsan., so Turkey imports a missile for 2 million and exports a million. The rest are funny efforts for exports to only countries like Azerbaijan, Pakistan etc, while there was an even more funny exchange with Ukraine, under which this country bought at high prices UAV and sold at high price the tank protection system.
3) They are effective. A Leopard costs around 8 mil. Turkey will produce Altay, which is a copy of Korean Black Panther, which is by itself a copy of the first M1 Abrams with a cost of approximately 16 million per unit. To my eyes, it would be better if one bought an original M1 Abrams for 7 million and then pay 9 million for each vehicle to 18 people (per vehicle). That would be that 250 vehicles X 18 persons per vehicle=4.500 people would get 500.000 each, or 9.000 people would get 250.000 each and without doing anything at all, you would have an American (and not Korean) M1 Abrams. And the most funny is that Armata is sold for approximately 5-6 million. As civilians, DO YOU KNOW where your money goes? It not to technology, we speak for a tank 30-40 years old! The same for Bayraktars, the same for TFX, the same everywhere in the military industry. You actually buy a foreign system, then you double the price and then you pay the difference between the double and normal price to employees (called scientists) and elsewhere (of course).
Mu friend, you don’t understand the international relations at all…the reason we are spending that much money and to manufacture our own weapons not to sell to other nations..we are doing it to be independent..this is not a investment to make money…WE DO NOT CARE IF ANYBODY BUYS OR NOT..even if we starve we will keep manufacturing and developing our own weapons..
Ps; if you have your own independence money will come in one way or another..see for example we are taking from Qatar..Qatar wouldn’t have paid even a nickle if we weren’t this strong.. 😉
dude,Exactly same thing Soviets did. It didnt end well
Soviets failed not because they were spending to develop their own weapons.. they failed because they couldn’t fit the leading system which was/is capitalism…I am sure you are aware of the fact that we are doing very well in the world market and we sell/buy goods to/from the world..how can you compare two irrelevant things ? 🙂
My view is that this is not for international relations and being independent in military hardware. Because independent you become with systems 100% your own. If you use a single component from another country you become dependent.
To me it looks like someone sells to your country hardware at the triple cost if it would be purchased by the original supplier. If this was for any other item type (food clothes etc) then it would be petty obvious to citizens what happens and what their re-action would be.
So the smartest part is that you do it with something that has to do with the military, the country and its pride.
So you sell the difference that would be impossible to excuse in any other type of purchase, and say:
-it is for international relations
-it is for us to become independent
-it is military so it is secret and we cannot disclose
-we acquire technology
-we run with increases of 35%
-it will pay off multiply in the future (well if bought in 1/3 of the price it would pay off higher)
-our nation will become invincible, etc etc.
See??? There is not a single rational argument for the difference in the cost. They are all about the pride, the nation, the flag etc etc, but all these could be done with 1/3 of the price or one could buy triple weapon systems! Even somewhat connected with the above, because in few years all fall down. Paid triple:
-for independence but you are not independent
-for saving cost but were not saved, instead the State orders enormous numbers of items, simply just in case its cost drops or monies are used elsewhere. Currently Turkey has ordered so many UAVs that are something like 5-8 times what the whole Europe has ordered.
=for technology, which later will be exported but it proves that at the end all are hired/bought patents and you cannot export due to this fact
This is not for the sake of the debate. This is our experience from the past and you will live it multiplied many times, so this is for the sake of history. Keep this comment and remember me in a couple of years when everybody there will tr to answer why this happened to the economy of our country.
Altay is delayed because of corruption. The Tank itself is ready for serial production since 2017.
Διαφθορά;
Λες διεφθαρμένο τον Ταγίπ.
Το ξέρει ο προϊστάμενός σου;
Why so butthurt? Can’t take the reality? It’s not a secret that Erdogan gave the tender to his friend Mr.Sancak from BMC.
Πανέξυπνε Reply στο εαυτό σου κάνεις;
So you think the 7 billion usd offer of bilderberg-koç groupe was better than the 3,5 billion usd offer of Ethem Sancak?
And bilderberg-koç offered NO single indigenous solutions but german and korean patents?
I wonder where bilderberg-koç used the 500 million usd incentives that they received from the state. They also refused to cooperate with aselsan and other turkish companies.
The difference between the two was that Koc was stating how much money they would charge to built it. The others simply quoted a smaller price. Soon they saw that at this price this was not do-able, so they requested additionally (on top of the price)
-A huge plot of land for free
-A factory for free
-People to pay additional money in the company (but instead as a price to make it like share capital increase to absorb the losses)
-Payroll, tax and other incentives.
Read the article quoted
So the one said 17 million each including everything and the other said 10 million, and if finally it costs 18 million, due to payroll, need to buy land, need to buy factory, need to pay workers, then you will pay an extra 8 million not to me but giving me for free all these costs. So the one said 7 billion and the other said 3.5 billion, but if employees, factory, etc cost me another 5 billion, the state will pay these. Wait… for the future, I have another ide. One can quote 17 million and the other to say we quote 1 million. This will be the price and the profit. But if it has costs and we do not make that profit, because we promised a price of 1, you will pay all cost. How about this price?
That was funny…
First of all, thank you for your factual answers.
But I have to say, that your opinion is based on wrong informations and numbers.
It would be a long message to explain the history of Turkish Defense industry, than the story about “Bilderberg-Koç Group”, the real reasons for the delay, technologies etc.
Another interesting story, would be the success story of Ethem Sancak/BMC and the former owners Cukurova Group.
Cukurova is same like the Bilderberg-Koc group. Corrupt, non-patriotic interests and kind of “cartel/mafia”.
In short, nice to have BMC and that they got the Altay-Tender.
Will generate huge benefits for Turkiye and its Defense Industry.
Btw, BMC is co-partner with the new Turkisch Automobile, will be launched on Saturday 😉
http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2019/otomotiv/yerli-otomobil-togg-binasi-onunde-goruntulendi-5523468/amp/
Qatarians bought 50% of BMC
So what?
Koç group are the representatives of the Bilderberg-Mafia in Turkiye.
Look at their JV and their strategies.
Should i remember you who build the protypes of Altay?
And what is indegenious in BMCs Altay? We know from Mr.Sancak himself that his company is in talks with Italians for a engine, everything else is still the same.
Otokar developed the AHT version of Altay from it’s own pocket.
Sure corruption 😆
Best of the deal is, that
Bilderberg-koç groupe was out of the game.
Exactly and fortunately 🙂
When Altay starts rolling off, it’ll be almost 100% Turkish (including the engine) and Turkey can manufacture as many as it wants. This improves technological know-how in Turkey, supports many sub-industries and generates employment. Best of all, MONEY stays in Turkey instead of going to the Germans or the Americans.
Καλός το τουρκοτρόλ με το Ρωμαίικο ψευδώνυμο.
Ναι σαν τους κινητήρες του ATAK και του Firtina.
Roman is a Turkish word too meaning Novel. It’s a male name.
T-129s will soon start manufacturing with TEI TS1400 turboshaft engines. Program is progressing per schedule. Each program is different and have different parameters. Sometimes it’s better to use a foreign or “co-manufactured” engine instead of developing one from scratch. Many countries (except Greece) follow similar models.
roman με μικρό m σημαίνει μυθιστόρημα λοιπόν στην τουρκική.
Αυτό εξηγεί πολλά από τα παραμύθια που μας γράφεις.
Αν τώρα το χρησιμοποιείς ως κύριο ουσιαστικό ( όνομα) τότε Roman σημαίνει Ρωμαίος.
Βλέπω λοιπόν ή ότι μας λες παραμύθια (roman) ή ότι ντρέπεσαι για την καταγωγή σου . Τουλάχιστον τα άλλα τρολ χρησιμοποιούν τουρκικά ψευδώνυμα.
All the turkish arms programs are bad copy of western technology (german and american) except some crap like the automatic mortar.
Plus these systems are so complicate that you relay always to foreign suppliers..
But is a good effort and as you said many people find quality jobs locally.
It doesn’t have to be the best, it only has to be “NATO standard” and do the job well.
The point is to meet military needs PLUS increase Turkey’s technological base, improve industrial capabilities, form new partnerships, keep the money within Turkish economy, and on top of all that, if possible, also find foreign export customers. Turkey’s defense exports have been rising steadily and have exceeded $2 billion. Not much, sure. But it’s still something and it’s very good compared how it was 10 years ago.
Μαζί σου Ρωμαίε.
Αυτό θέλουμε και εμείς , να μην είναι τα καλύτερα,απλά να ικανοποιούν τα Νατοϊκά πρότυπα.
evaluating this tank double or triple more than all tanks in the market ,just to justify total investment cost,smells huge corruption
I bet you wished, Mitcotakis has a patriotic buddy as Erdogan has with Ethem Sancak. 😉 😉
Apples and Pears
Alexander the Great
Όταν πιάνεις στο στόμα σου τον Μέγιστο να πλένεις πρώτα το στόμα σου με σαπούνι.
Ισχύει ότι για να επιλυθεί το πρόβλημα ευστάθειας σε κυματισμό οι Τούρκοι αύξησαν ελαφρώς το μήκος του σκάφους ενώ εμείς προσθέσαμε βάρος διατηρώντας το μήκος??
Yes the Turkish submarines are 3m longer.
Ακριβώς το ίδιο νούμερο με το iQ σου.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when Trakya answers a legitimate question but you resort to insulting him?
Ρε τουρκοτρόλ. Έρχεστε στην Ελλάδα να κάνετε την προπαγάνδα σας να διαβάλλετε , να φτιάξετε κλίμα πόσο ανώτερες είναι οι τουρκικές ένοπλες δυνάμεις , αήττητες , πανίσχυρες, και το μόνο που μας απομένει είναι να παραδοθούμε στις ορέξεις σας, και μου μιλάς για άμμιλα και ευγενικές συμπεριφορές.
Και για να στο πω και λατινικά τουρκοτρόλ με το Ρωμαϊκό ψευδώνυμο :Inter arma silent leges.
Και δυστυχώς είμαστε πια στον καιρό του πολέμου με εσάς που η ατυχία μας σας έκανε αναγκαστικούς γειτόνους.
“As you all know, if both sides are equal, justice will happen.
But if one of the parties is stronger than the other, it is worthy to submit to the weak. ”
Thucydides
Το ίδιο, Κατακτητή της μάνας, σου πίστευαν και οι Πέρσες.
Ok “strong” side , but the reality is this and it’s not going to change
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Islands#/media/File:Location_map_of_AegeanIslands_(Greece).svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Islands#/media/File:Location_map_of_AegeanIslands_(Turkey).svg
So…..,Thucydides……….where exactly were your ancestors in 5th century BC ?
So you do understand how stupid you sound. Very good.
We can spend all day insulting each other in here. But all that will achieve is drag down the quality of this website. If you want to really “insult us” so much, then save your appetite for the battlefield. Perhaps get back Northern Cyprus, or Istanbul, or Smyrna? Or perhaps just increase your territorial waters to 12nm?
But you can’t do any of that, can you? Ohh, boohoo. 🙂
There will be a day that we will take back what’s ours. Cyprus, Smyrni and of course our capital, Constantinople.
I’ d like to see your face that day. Probably i won’t. You’ll be too busy running back to Mongolia to save your life…
Αν ενδιαφέρεσαι για την ποιότητα του ιστολογίου κάνε του την χάρη και απάλλαξέ το από την ρυπαρή παρουσία σου.
ΥΓ
Τουρκοτρολ με το Ρωμαϊκό ψευδώνυμο το τι κάνουμε εμείς είναι δικιά μας δουλεία, κοιτάξτε εσείς να ελευθερώσετε τα 13 στελέχη της αστυνομίας και του στρατού που κρατούν αιχμαλώτους οι μαχητές το ΡΚΚ και έλα μετά να γελάσεις σαν βλάκας.
If you don’t like the way you are treated, stop reading and writing in this site. Don’t you have descent , high-quality sites in turkey to share thoughts?
As for the shitty comments of yours about Σμύρνη και Κωνσταντινούπολη, probably you haven’t heard anything about Lausanne Treaty .Stop wasting time by reading P&D and visit a library (are there any in there, wherever you are ?).But don’t you ever forget that you appeared in the region in the 12th century AC , and Minor Asia is the western frontier you will ever have. Be sure about that.
Finally, don’t brag about N. Cyprus, it’s ridiculous. You curse the U.S. today but they “gave” it to you . You didn’t even invade then in the island , you disembarked. Do you understand the difference? (It’s a rhetorical question , I don’ t need an answer).
Nobody gave us anything my man, we took it because you didn’t learn how to live together with turks in Cyprus..that’s why we had embargo for a long time from the world (which was the best thing happened to us to establish our own industry)..yes we came here later on and we liked it, so what? 🙂 for God’s sake Everybody went somewhere my friend we are talking about thousands years ago are you hearing yourself :))) what do you want us to do, to give Anadolu to you just because your ancestors were here??!! (Well..it’s a rhetorical question I don’t need an answer 😉 )
Yes we have a lot of sites about defense industry but we don’t see any Greek friends in those sites to share ideas, not because of you are not welcome to those turkish sites I guess you don’t have anything to say in those sites especially when you are not doing very well in the industry 🙂 for example myself never read or write comments in any Americans site about the industry, what would or could I say to them, literally nothing)) ohh hold on, yes I can say something about migration of tribes and how stupid Americans are :)))
Correction ; ….I never write or read any comments in Americans’ industry sites…
You might be suprised to find out that not all nations used to be nomads like yours. Hellenes were in the region since at least 2000 bc. They expanded to a territory from Crimea to Egypt and from Bagdad to Marseige. The Mediterranean was a hellenic lake for over 2000 years.
Stop provoking us. There is a good chance that the Turks you are defending now, are those who raped your grandmother and forced your family to convert to Islam. In your case they have succeded turning you to a janissar but there are many more who still know who they really are.
As for your feeling of supremacy, I ‘ll remind you that after 500 years of your total rise in power as Ottoman Empire, Hellas was liberated and not even 100 years ago we almost erase you off the map. We didn’t succed back then. We are patient as the old owners if the region. The tenant will go away and those lands will be ours again. It might not happen today or tomorrow but I can tell you this much:
We are the ones who will wipe you off our ancestors lands.
Good day and enjoy it as it lasts…
Well..we are here to die/kill my man..let’s see 🙂
Well, we know that my man… you ‘ll see! 😉
“Even if there wasn’t a single turk living on the island, there would still be a Cyprus issue for turkey …” Yıldırım Tuğrul Türkeş – 26/1/17 (TR Deputy PM 28/8/2015- 19/7/2017).
Sure, your only thought was their rights…. 😆 😆 😆
You ‘d better read books depicting your country’s agenda. Begin by reading Davutoglu’s Strategic Depth :shutmouth: Stop wasting time in here. Do some homework and come back later, maybe in 15 years.
Correction no 1: Cyprus of course !! N. Cyprus exists only in your fantasy.
Correction no 2: the westernmost frontier
Yeah I said Cyprus with past sentence 🙂 I didn’t say “you don’t learn how to learn…” I said “you DIDN’T learn how to learn…” 🙂
But it is good to know how it makes you happy to hear from me “Cyprus” :)) it’s there my friend, go and get it..no need trash talking here..
Then stop writing in here.
Αν αυτό ευσταθεί. τότε οι Γερμανοί θα έπρεπε να μας αποζημιώσουν που μάθανε στου κασίδι το κεφάλι, και μετά πουλάνε βελτιώσεις σε άλλους.
Than Greeks and germans should pay to the Turks, afaik Turkish Engineers found the solution.
Είναι αδύνατο σε ένα βλάκα να εξηγήσεις το παράλογο του συλλογισμού του, δεν θα το καταλάβει και εσύ θα χάσεις τον χρόνο σου, και εγώ Επιδρομέα της κακιάς ώρας δεν θέλω να χάσω τον χρόνο μου.
ελπίζω για το καλό της χώρας καμιά κυβέρνηση από εδώ και στο εξεις να μην αγοράσει όπλα από γερμανία!!
ετσι ακριβως!!!!!!
Οι γερμανοί είναι φίλοι μας!
The Germans (TROIKA) are Greece’s debt owners and therefore have tremendous control over Greek domestic and foreign policy.
Ρε τουρκοτρόλ για πες μου ποιος έχει το έλεγχο του υδροκυανίου στην Τουρκία, γιατί από την πολύ καλοπέραση διαβάζω ότι αυτοκτονούν ολόκληρες οικογένειες.
Turkey’s population is getting close to 85 MILLION while Greece is shrinking towards single digits. It’s pretty clear to everybody as to who’s killing themselves.
Άρα ρε τουρκοτρόλ και να αυτοκτονήσουν ολόκληρες οικογένειες στα @@ σας.
Εκτός ρε τουρκοτρόλ και αν αυτοκτονούν γκιουλενιστές για να διαβάλλουν τον πολυχρονεμένο σας Ταγίπ.
How does it feel to be the dumbest commentator on this website?
Δεν κινδυνεύω να χαρακτηριστώ ως τέτοιος όσο εσύ και τα υπόλοιπα τουρκουρόλ γράφετε σε αυτό το ιστολόγιο.
Το υποβρύχιο θα ονομαστεί “Piri Reis”
Ρε Μουστάρδα αυτός ο Piri Reis δεν είχε πει το ανεπανάληπτο
Μalta yok;
Εδώ είναι ένας μεγάλος κωμικός …
Ναι το ξέρω . Όταν διάβασα το περιστατικό με την Μάλτα γέλασα με την καρδιά μου.
Εντάξει, μην τα ισοπεδώνουμε όλα… Αυτό αποδίδεται στον αρχιναύαρχο του Σουλτάνου Ιμπραήμ του Α’ (του “Τρελλού” ή “Ντελή” Ιμπραήμ), που έζησε περίπου ενάμιση αιώνα αργότερα από τον Piri Reis. Αντιθέτως , ο τελευταίος ήταν ικανός ναύαρχος και πρωτοπόρος χαρτογράφος.
Υπάρχουν διάφορες εκδοχές, μια από αυτές θέλει τον Πίρι Ρέις να το είπε.
Ε! Εσύ ποια θα διάλεγες για τρολάρεις τα τρολ;
😆 Συμφωνώ ότι ο πειρασμός (να τους τσιγκλάει κανείς) είναι μεγάλος…
Και Πόντιος, απόγονος του Στράβωνος, αν και εξωμότης
Δεν πρέπει να είμαστε αφοριστικοί πρέπει να οργανωθούμε με την ιδέα ότι θα παραδωθουν κανονικά
Еuxоμασтз αпо ßαθоuς кαpδiαs то vεотзuкто «Pirireis» vα εxзi тnv тuxn тοu Κοupσк. Тα δз «Hizirreis», «Muratreis», «Aydınreis» εuxομασтз vα ßpоuv тnv θзσn поu тоus αξizзi, δnλαδn коμαтiασμзvα σтоv пαто тоu Аiγαiоu
Γλυτώσαμε το F-35, αυτό όμως δε το γλυτώνουμε. Δυστυχώς. Ελπίζω η ΠΑ ή η ΔΥΚ να τα ξεκάνουν στην προβλήτα γιατί αλλιώς θα βρεθούμε προ πολύ δυσάρεστων εκπλήξεων, μάλλον κι εμείς και μαζί μας όλα τα ναυτικά του κόσμου.
Παρά τη δεδομένη γερμανική συμπάθεια (για οποιουσδήποτε) λόγους προς την Τουρκία εδώ και πάρα πολλές δεκαετίες, εφόσον αυτή η χώρα (η Γερμανία) δεν λέει όχι στο χρήμα από όπου και αν προέρχεται, γιατί να μην αγοράζουμε κι εμείς ό,τι καλό βγάζουν, εν προκειμένω αυτά τα υποβρύχια, δεδομένου δε, ότι αφού έχουμε ψιλοαργήσει σε άλλα αμυντικά συστήματα, έχουμε ωστόσο, αυτή τη στιγμή, την υπεροχή κάτω από την επιφάνεια της θάλασσας. Αξιέπαινη μεν η προσπάθεια των γειτόνων, αλλά το γρήγορο αποτέλεσμα μετράει, και μάλιστα, με τα ίδια χρήματα ή και λιγότερα, λαμβάνοντας υπόψη τα περί διαφθοράς που αναφέρουν οι γείτονες, θύματα της οποίας είμαστε κι εμείς και αυτοί, αλλά και της σκληρής αλήθειας, ότι τέτοιες υψηλές τεχνολογίες, παρά τις όποιες σημαντικές προσπάθειες, παίρνει καιρό να αποκτηθούν, και τα γεγονότα εν τω μεταξύ τρέχουν.
There is a misunderstanding.
The germans do not love Turkiye or the Turks.
The germans want to colonize Turkiye, since the Ottoman period.
The never ending “Turkish-German” friendship is just to fool oneselves.
Is there any explanation why germany hosts so many fetö and pkk members? Why german foundations in Turkiye have so many links to terror groups?
Its a fact that germany is the leading country in the EU. Why didnt they sponsor Turkiyes entry to the EU, now for almost 60 years?
Πλάκωσαν τα τουρκοτρόλ σαν τις μύγες.
The world’s best type-214 class submarine and a new design corrected all amateur bugs
Καλός μάστορας πρώτος στις συγκολλήσεις ζητά εργασία τηλ ####### ζητήστε τον Κο Ταγίπ.
Αντι να χαιρόμαστε με τις οποιεσδήποτε δυσκολίες των γειτόνων θα έπρεπε να παραδειγματιζόμαστε από την πρόοδο που έκαναν τα τελευταία 20 χρόνια (που εμείς ήμασταν στη νιρβάνα μας).
Αυτονόητο αυτό… Και θα έπρεπε επίσης να είχε ασκηθεί από καιρού η προαίρεση για τα δύο επιπρόσθετα Τype 214.
Bravo! Good to see that there are intelligent Greeks who realize how the West has been exploiting them for so long.
Άλλα διαβάζεις άλλα καταλαβαίνεις.
Μην αγχώνεστε και ασχολείστε ιδιαίτερα, Έλληνες και Τούρκοι για το πόσα υποβρύχια και καράβια θα φτιάξουν και αν είναι τρία μέτρα μακρύτερα η όχι. Πεταμένα λεφτά είναι, ή μάλλον βυθισμένα, γιατί ότι και να κάνουν, όσα και να κάνουν ξέρουν πολύ καλά ότι το Ελληνικό Πολεμικό Ναυτικό θα παραμείνει αήττητο. Η ναυτοσυνη δεν κατασκευάζεται σε κανένα ναυπηγείο, σφυρηλατειται στις γέφυρες και στα ΚΠΜ στα δέκα και έντεκα μποφόρ, μεταλαμπαδευεται από γενιά σε γενιά, εμπνέεται από Σαλαμινομαχους και μπουρλοτιερηδες. Αχ και τι δεν θα έδιναν οι Τούρκοι να είχαν τη μισή από αυτή τη ναυτοσυνη!!!
Καλά Χριστούγεννα σε όλους.
The West may have been exploiting us or not. It may have been exploiting you guys as well and good on you for getting rid of them. You have advanced your military industry and we don’t have a problem with that. What we do have a problem with is your efforts to change borders. That , will not go unanswered.
Ναι αλλά πηγαίναμε Μύκονο. Αυτό που το πας…..
Greeks are hopeless in all aspect. Turks are uncatchable in any field of defense industry. Today, While Greeks are bragging for Exocet, Turks proudly introduces Atmaca missiles. Tomorrow will be more dramatic for Griks. When Turkey started to introduce supersonic anti-ship missiles, air launchable anti-ship missiles, Long range cuise missiles (1000+km); Griks will keep bragging for their Scalps and expired Exocets. If you manage to purchase a warship, Turks will immediately put Turkish type assault boats with 60kts speed, Istanbul class frigate with 16 cel VLS or Tf-2000 with 64 cell VlS in near future. If Griks side want to join an arm race, It will be a pleasure for Turkiyr since It is proved that Greek economy collapses in a short time. They also know they can not do anything against Turks so they are using a bad mouth to insult Turks cause of desperation. You lost the train griks. You should firstly pay the depts (450 billion $) to IMF and Germans and later come here and talk about countering the Turks.